書攤初識“法輪功”
記者：何老，請先談一下您最早接觸“法輪功”的經(jīng)過好嗎?
何祚庥：1996年11月26日，我在一個書攤上，看到中國廣播電視出版社出版的一本書，是李洪志寫的《轉法輪》。我想，一個負責國家宣傳工作部門的出版社，怎么會出一本宣揚佛教的書呢?當時，我以為它就是一本宣傳佛教的書。結果，拿回來一看，它還不是宣傳佛教的書，利用佛教、貶低佛教，宣傳自己封建迷信學說的一本書。所以，我覺得過去我們沒有注意到“法輪功”，沒有注意李洪志，現(xiàn)在看起來值得注意了。這就是我當時比較深刻的現(xiàn)象。
后來看到了一些材料。很重要的一份是佛教協(xié)會陳星橋先生寫的一篇系統(tǒng)揭露“法輪功”的文章，從佛教的角度，認為“法輪功”是附佛外道，實際上是一種邪教。讀后我想，連佛教都認為“法輪功”是一種邪教，本來只是我以為“法輪功”是一種封建迷信，這下更值得注意了。
記者：什么原因或者什么事情促使你揭露批判“法輪功”呢?
何祚庥：是發(fā)生在我身邊的一件事，促使我開始批評“法輪功”。
隨著“法輪功”勢力越來越大，我們所的一些研究生也開始練起了“法輪功”。有一位研究生因練“法輪功”走火入魔，得了精神病。其癥狀是，整天不吃不喝不說話，也不睡覺。這個情況驚動了我們研究所的負責人，急忙把這位研究生送到了精神病醫(yī)院。這件事說明練“法輪功”很容易導致精神失常，對“法輪功”確實應該注意了。當時，剛好北京電視臺《北京特快》節(jié)目采訪我，我就說了一下，“練習氣功要注意，譬如‘法輪功’就可以練出走火人魔，對這個問題，練功者要當心。練氣功雖然對身體有好處，但練得不好，容易走火人魔?！本瓦@么一個簡單的談話，引起“法輪功”練習者圍攻北京電視臺。我本人也收到了一大批來信，但這些信都是千篇一律，基調(diào)一樣的。特別是從沈陽寄來的最多，看得出是一種有組織的圍攻。我們所和中科院的一些“法輪功”信徒也來找我談話辯論，這引起了我更大的注意，“只批評了幾句，‘法輪功’就如此興師動眾。”后來，“法輪功”信徒又在同一時期，圍攻了許多報社和新聞單位，氣焰十分囂張。當時大多數(shù)單位都賠禮道歉，只有少數(shù)單位頂住了。
一文掀起滔天浪
記者：您批評“法輪功”后，他們組織練功者圍攻北京電視臺，給您寫信，還跟您辯論，您思想上有沒有壓力?
何祚庥：“法輪功”組織威脅我，要與我辯論，并沒有嚇倒我，因為真理在我們手里。所以，一有機會我就在報紙雜志上繼續(xù)揭露他們。譬如，在《科技潮》上我也批評了“法輪功”，當然遭到了他們的圍攻。在西安一家學報上我批評了幾句，也遭到了圍攻。只是這些規(guī)模都比較小。至于我，反正是有機會就說。所以，后來我又在《青少年科技博覽》上揭露了“法輪功”。
記者：正是您在《青少年科技博覽》上揭露“法輪功”的文章，觸怒了“法輪功”組織，他們開始大規(guī)模地圍攻天津師范大學，進而喪心病狂地圍攻中南海。請講一講寫這篇文章的內(nèi)容和經(jīng)過好嗎?
何祚庥：1999年初，天津師范大學教育學院主辦的《青少年科技博覽》希望我給青少年說幾句話。我想了想，就寫了一篇文章《我不贊成青少年練氣功》，我覺得這是真正應該給青少年說的話。緣于對“法輪功”印象不佳，在這篇文章里，我兩次提到“法輪功”的短處。笫一是“法輪功”宣揚封建迷信，鼓吹“元神不滅定律”，第二是“法輪功”會走火入魔，并再次舉了我所研究生練“法輪功”走火入魔的事情。
當我在北京電視臺講了這個研究生練“法輪功”走火入魔的事情后，“法輪功”信徒就來找我辯論，說那個研究生不是練了“法輪功”走火人魔的，而是練了別的氣功才致魔的，但說不出別的什么功。這顯然是強詞奪理，因為我們所都知道這個學生是練“法輪功”的。所以，當時我就說，“你們這樣說可就不好了嗎。明明是練了“法輪功”才出問題的，偏要推到別的什么氣功身上?！彼麄冋f：“何老師呀，你不了解情況，那個學生練的姿勢不對?！蔽艺f：“我是練太極拳的，練太極拳的人，姿勢千奇百怪，每個人都不一樣。如果練‘法輪功’由于姿勢不對的話，就會走火入魔，那‘法輪功’就太危險了?！碑敃r我還沒想多么嚴重，現(xiàn)在看來，事實上要嚴重得多。這次辯論沒有結果。
因此，在《青少年科技博覽》的這篇文章中，我特意提到：那個研究生在第一次走火入魔，送到精神病醫(yī)院治好后，又練“法輪功”，導致第二次走火人魔，這回的癥狀是嘴里不停地念叨著“李洪志老師還在不斷地關注我”。這就更確切地證明了，這個學生是練“法輪功”走火入魔的。他們想抵賴事實，所以對我這段話特別惱火。于是他們就圍攻天津師范大學，圍攻《青少年科技博覽》。但是，為了欺騙“法輪功”學員，他們不讓這些學員看我的那篇文章。有人想看，他們就說，文章很長，全是攻擊“法輪功”的。其實，我的那篇文章很短，不到一千字，而且只有兩個地方提及“法輪功”。就是在他們的蒙蔽宣傳下，煽動了一大批人圍攻天津師范大學。這就是事情的基本經(jīng)過。
后來的事情大家都知道，他們又圍攻中南海，向黨和政府施壓，并提出了三條要求：第一條是要求成為合法組織；第二條是要求《青少年科技博覽》賠禮道歉；第三條是要求嚴厲懲辦罪魁禍手何祚庥?？雌饋硎且驗楹戊疋訉懥艘黄恼?，其實是“項莊舞劍，意在沛公”是借題發(fā)揮。我的這篇小文章微不足道，我批評其他偽氣功的文章很多，這只不過是幾句話。他們真正的意圖是要同黨中央、中央人民政府較量一下?，F(xiàn)在，他們攻擊的矛頭已經(jīng)指向黨中央、江總書記和朱總理了。這些情況充分說明了他們圍攻中南海完全是有組織、有計劃、有預謀的行動?，F(xiàn)在揭露出來的大量事實，也充分證明了這是李洪志直接布置，一手操縱的。
圍攻辯論無所懼
記者：您提到，“法輪功”組織多次找人與你辯論，您是如何對付他們的?
何祚庥：在我批評“法輪功”的同時，他們派人來同我辯論。譬如，他們在圍攻天津《青少年科技博覽》的時候，有人到我家騷擾，要同我辯論。我不能不辯，如果不辯論，他們就會認為真理在他們那一邊。但怎樣進行辯論，是要考慮的。我的對策之一就是問他們是不是“法輪功”代表，當時沒有人敢承認自己是“法輪功”代表。我說既然不是“法輪功”的代表，為什么來找我辯論?我批評的是“法輪功”，他們對我有意見，可以來和我辯論，或者是“法輪功”組織派出代表同我辯論，或者是李洪志親自來同我辯論，我都歡迎。他們中有一人說自己是“法輪功”組織派出的代表，我說歡迎辯論，請他拿出介紹信。但他拿不出介紹信，我說沒有介紹信，怎么能證明是“法輪功”的代表，我當然不同他辯論。這是我對付他們的第一種辦法。
第二種辯論的辦法是，“以子之矛，攻子之盾”。我問他們，“你們‘法輪功’不是講真、善、忍嗎?那就先談談忍吧!”我是一名共產(chǎn)黨員，共產(chǎn)黨是講斗爭哲學的，主張既斗爭，又團結。你們是講忍的，但我看你們“法輪功”的行動與“忍”字相差得很遠。我才寫了一篇小小的文章，你們就如此興師動眾，大動干戈，一點都不像忍的樣子，比我這個講斗爭哲學的共產(chǎn)黨員的斗爭性強多了。本來，我還以為“法輪功”可能有一點優(yōu)點，現(xiàn)在看來理論根本不聯(lián)系實際，講的與做的根本不一樣。當年我們批評蔣介石是“好話說盡，壞事做絕”，現(xiàn)在“法輪功”怎么也犯了同樣的毛病?什么是忍?我小時候讀過《圣經(jīng)》，耶穌教導說，“忍”就是別人打你的左耳光時，你把右臉送給他打，這是忍的典范?，F(xiàn)在我才說了幾句，你們就到我家來吵鬧，這怎么稱得上“忍”呢?“法輪功”的行動給我的印象實在是太壞了。
再說“真”字。當時我己從陳星橋先生的文章中知道李洪志改生日的事了，我問他們，“李洪志明明是7月7日的生日，為什么要改成5月13號，這算什么真呢?”這時他們好多人還不知道李洪志改生日的事情。我說李洪志辦起事來可不講“真”字。
最后說一說“善”字。一個人要是練“法輪功”生了病就不讓吃藥，好多病人都死了，報紙上都登了，這種行為對人不能算是“善”吧?
我拿出他們的“真、善、忍”口號，這是李洪志寫在書上的，說“真、善、忍”是宇宙的大法，我問說，“你們怎么不聽李洪志老師的教導?你們可以說我說的不對，怎么連你們的老師李洪志說的都不聽呢?”
我與他們隔著防盜門辯論。當然，如果他們真要撬我家的防盜門，我就打110報警了。不過，在這我要替他們說一句公道話，他們雖然來找我辯論，可還沒有動我家的防盜門。
李洪志騙人靠吹牛
記者：何老，“法輪功”能夠造成如此廣泛惡劣的影響，使成千上萬的人受騙上當，您認為其原因何在?
何祚庥：“法輪功”從1989年開始傳播，1992——1999年在全國傳授，號稱有1億人練功，實際上約有200萬人。這個數(shù)字是十分驚人的，而且其中有三分之一是共產(chǎn)黨員。與中國共產(chǎn)黨的發(fā)展史相比，1921年建黨，1927年領導了一場大革命。那時，中共黨員的人數(shù)比“法輪功”的人數(shù)少多了。在當今中國共產(chǎn)黨的領導下，“法輪功”的發(fā)展傳播速度如此之快，值得注意。
我認為，“法輪功”傳播之快，信徒之眾，有兩個主要原因：
第一個原因是氣功在我國有比較廣泛的社會基礎和比較悠久的歷史，尤其是近年來一波又一波的氣功熱和新造神運動，為“法輪功”的傳播提供了機會。特別是李洪志敢于吹牛，吹大牛，吹超級大牛，使人們上當，連我也曾上當。他吹噓說練“法輪功”的人有6000萬，我想即使打個折扣，也有2000萬，那也不得了，可實際上只有200萬。李洪志吹牛是超乎人性的。
第二個原因是李洪志善于利用別人的影響來抬高自己，宣傳“法輪功”。首先是利用佛教，利用釋加牟尼，他改動自己的生日，把自己說成是釋加牟尼轉世，法力超過釋加牟尼，是他的幾千倍幾萬倍。其次是利用黨的威望，特別是利用江總書記在人民群眾中的威信，吹噓自己。他吹牛說，江總書記給自己的任務就是推遲地球爆炸的時間，騙取人民群眾對他的信任，對“法輪功”的迷信；再就是利用現(xiàn)代科學名詞和術語，打著科學的幌子，讓人們相信“法輪功”。
記者：何老，作為一名科學家，您是如何認定“法輪功”的反科學性和虛偽性呢？換言之，我們?nèi)绾舞b別偽氣功和偽科學呢?
何祚庥：對于判定偽氣功偽科學，不是一件容易的事。這涉及如何理解科學精神和科學方法等一系列問題。
不過，凡是那些號稱自己控制地球爆炸時間，宣稱能夠解決任何問題的人，一定是騙子。像“法輪功”聲稱“一人練功，全家受益”，“我發(fā)功，你健康”，吹噓“外氣”等等，這都是吹牛。凡是吹牛，吹特大牛的人，都是騙子或大騙子。據(jù)統(tǒng)計表明，練“法輪功”致死人多達743人，其它一些氣功，如練不好一樣可致人死亡。
還有像嚴新聲稱自己在“廣州發(fā)功，可導致北京清華大學實驗室里試管內(nèi)的物質(zhì)化學成分發(fā)生變化”，“大興安嶺大火是我發(fā)功撲滅的”等，完全是騙人的鬼話。其他一些人聲稱自己有“特異功能”，能預測衛(wèi)星發(fā)射成功與否等，也都是“假科學，真巫術”。
新的“有神論”有一個特點，就是用現(xiàn)代科學名詞和術語包裝起一個“活著的神”。不像傳統(tǒng)宗教所供奉的是死了的神，只有根據(jù)他說的話，寫的書，自己解釋領會其意思。這個“活著的神”能根據(jù)不同情況，發(fā)布新的指示和新的指令，組織新活動，挑動新事端，對社會安定的破壞性更大，欺騙性更強。新有神論還鼓吹“靈魂不滅定律”、“元神不滅定律”，這是捏造科學!
事實證明，所有的偽氣功、偽科學都是反科學，反文明的，都必須加以徹底地揭露和批判。
反偽斗爭靠大家
記者：許多人都知道“法輪功”，還有其它形形色色的偽氣功、偽科學，了解其虛偽，可真正站出來揭露批判其荒謬者并不多，唯有您仗義執(zhí)言，一直堅持不懈地與他們作斗爭。
何祚庥：不敢當，不敢當，不能這么說。其實有很多人像我一樣，勇敢地揭露批判“法輪功”和其它偽氣功、偽科學。偽氣功的鼓吹者號召所有的氣功師，聯(lián)合起來向四個人發(fā)功，第一個是于光遠，第二個是司馬南，第三個是郭正誼，第四個才是我何祚庥。在他們看來，這四個人是偽氣功者所說的四大惡人。對于反對批判偽氣功和偽科學，于光遠等他們?nèi)硕甲隽舜罅康墓ぷ鳎抑挥幸稽c小貢獻，就是我比較熟悉自然科學，從自然科學角度揭露得相對透徹一點，社會公眾可能容易接受。
于光遠先生是最早反對偽氣功和偽科學的。司馬南先生是打入氣功組織內(nèi)部，了解許多內(nèi)情，再站出來進行揭露偽氣功的。郭正誼教授是多年來長期地、一貫地與封建迷信作斗爭的。他先在北京大學當教授，后到中國科普研究所當所長，始終反對封建迷信。這里面有個小故事。
郭教授家里要裝電話，電話局里給的電話號碼是除了局號，后面的四位數(shù)是“4444”。為什么會是這個號碼呢?電話局的人說“這個號碼讓不出去，沒人要，你不是反對偽科學嗎，就給你吧!”郭教授一聽，連忙說“好，好，好!我從來不信邪!這有什么關系?有4444我就會死呀，在樂譜中，‘4’是念‘發(fā)’，我的‘4444’是‘發(fā)發(fā)發(fā)發(fā)’。我才不信這種封建迷信。給我這個號碼好啦，我的朋友好記。”這顯示了郭教授鮮明的個性。
下面我再介紹幾個人：
中央黨校副校長龔育之教授，是全國著名的馬列學者、經(jīng)濟學家，是鄧小平理論研究權威，寫了許多書。龔育之教授從馬克思主義的角度，揭露批判偽科學。這是非常重要的。重要性在于過去僅從自然科學角度批判，現(xiàn)在從馬克思主義角度指出，現(xiàn)代偽科學與馬克思主義的精神原理相違背的，提醒馬克思主義者注意偽科學。
張洪林教授，中國中醫(yī)研究院氣功研究室的主任，專門研究氣功的。他非常熟悉氣功歷史、方法，寫了一些書，揭露偽氣功。他還專門做了一些實驗。他的實驗證明，只要阻斷心理暗示，所有“外氣”的種種神奇效應都會失靈。也就是說，所謂“外氣”的神奇效應，實際上是心理暗示所起的作用。但這個心理暗示只對某些人產(chǎn)生作用，對其他人或非人物體不會產(chǎn)生任何作用。所以張洪林教授做了很好的工作。
張彤玲大夫，他是一名精神病醫(yī)生，研究了許多因練功走火入魔的病例，有十分豐富的臨床經(jīng)驗，曾著書呼吁社會關注練功走火人魔的現(xiàn)象。
李力研教授，他也寫了許多書，批判偽氣功的狂熱鼓吹者柯云路。此外，還有一位李勝先大夫，長期在農(nóng)村行醫(yī)，對巫醫(yī)泛濫現(xiàn)象和借氣功治病名義推行現(xiàn)代巫術作了大量系統(tǒng)的調(diào)查研究，為揭露批判偽氣功做了很多貢獻。
還有一位大家十分尊敬的人，就是莊逢甘院士，他首先站出來揭露“預測大師”陳林峰。因為外界盛傳，因陳林峰預測衛(wèi)星發(fā)射有功，航天部重獎他20萬元人民幣。莊逢甘院士經(jīng)過認真的調(diào)查研究，發(fā)現(xiàn)所謂陳林峰受重獎一事，實際上是陳林峰假借“世界華人協(xié)會”名義獎勵自己，以此抬高自己。陳本人就是這個組織的副理事長。
其他的還有像清華大學張孝先校長、《工人日報》的孟東明、朱海燕等人，也都做了大量揭露批判偽氣功、偽科學的工作，我就不一一敘述了。
聯(lián)手智斗張寶勝
記者：您還揭露批判過其它偽氣功和偽科學事件，能給我們的讀者談談好嗎?
何祚庥：先講一下揭露批判“水變油”的事情吧，這是科學騙子王洪成的“發(fā)明”。1993年1月28日，在一家著名的全國性報紙上，登了一條消息，“中國的第五大發(fā)明是水變油”。當時，正是八屆政協(xié)會議期間，科技界人士看到以后，議論紛紛，都認為很荒謬，應該揭露和批判。大家推舉我寫一篇批判文章。
我先收集了多家宣傳此事的報紙，發(fā)現(xiàn)不同報紙宣傳的水油比例都不同，相互矛盾。我據(jù)此寫了一篇文章，進行分析和批評。送三家全國性的大報，幾個星期過后都沒見發(fā)表。于是，又送到一家科技專業(yè)性質(zhì)的報社，也未能發(fā)表。
1994年，黨中央、國務院發(fā)出了《關于加強科普宣傳工作的幾點意見》，時任國家科委主任的宋健同志召集會議，商討如何貫徹落實中央指示，號召科學家們著文宣傳科學，反對偽科學。他得知我寫過一篇批判“水變油”的文章未能發(fā)表后，批示《科技日報》刊登。此文一發(fā)表，后來多家報紙登載多篇文章揭露批判“水變油”。
“水變油”發(fā)明的相信者，還曾多次邀請我到東北做實驗，以便讓人們信服。我說，既然這個發(fā)明是科學的，應具有普遍性，“真理的普通性應該和地點無關”，于是邀請他們到北京來做試驗。他們到底心虛，不敢來北京做實驗，駁證了他們的荒謬。
關于王洪成及其“水變油”的騙局直到不久前才得以徹底解決。
再講一個就是揭露“中國第一超人張寶勝”的事情。張寶勝聲稱自己有許多特異功能，如用意念將藥丸抖出瓶外，耳朵識字等。我和其他一些科學家對此一直持不相信和批判的態(tài)度。有一次，有機會驗證張寶勝的特異功能，并準許我們自己挑選試樣品。后來，我們就組織了10名科學家和魔術師去參加論證會。
去之前，我先請中科院化學所所長吹制了幾個形狀特異的玻璃瓶，里面裝有幾粒藥丸，附上防偽標記，以防止他復制或掉包。到現(xiàn)場后，我們請張寶勝表演他將藥丸抖出瓶外的特異功能。表演從上午8點半開始，結果到了中午也沒成功。張寶勝推說是現(xiàn)場氣氛不好，影響功力發(fā)揮。其實這樣的樣品，完全可以由他帶回家去，無論何時何地，只要能將藥丸抖出，即算成功。但是，他都沒有接過樣品。
后又改為表演耳朵識字。我當場寫了一個字條，裝入一個信封，并于封口處簽滿我的名字，交由張寶勝識別。張裝模作樣運功后，說要到場外培養(yǎng)功力，將信封交給會議主持人后離去。為防張寶勝掉包，我緊緊地盯著他的手，沒有發(fā)現(xiàn)可疑現(xiàn)象。這時，隨我們?nèi)サ哪g師，請主持人看一看手中的信封是否還是我親手簽名的那個信封，主持人打開一看，卻不是我簽名的信封，真信封果然已被張寶勝掉包，帶出場外拆閱。張寶勝的特異功能就這樣被我們的魔術師破解了。事實證明，他的所謂特異功能不過是魔術騙局罷了，我們一般人看不出，魔術師一眼就能識破。這次的驗證會也以張寶勝的失敗而告終。
科技界反偽有重任
記者：您認為要徹底清除“法輪功”和其它邪說的惡毒影響，全社會特別是科學界應做些什么?
何祚庥：要消除“法輪功”等其它邪教的流毒和影響，首先要消除“法輪功”能夠迅速產(chǎn)生泛濫的土壤?！胺ㄝ喒Α笔乔耙粫r期掀起的中國“氣功熱”、“特異功能熱”、“新的造神熱”共同作用之下產(chǎn)生的東西。對這一點，我們必須有一個清醒的認識。否則，消除了一個“法輪功”，還會出現(xiàn)一個別的什么功；消除了一個李洪志，還會有一個新的“神人”出現(xiàn)。這是我覺得需要關注的第一件事情。
第二件需要關注的事情，是對“法輪功”的批判還沒有在理論上打好徹底的勝仗?，F(xiàn)在，在國外，在因特網(wǎng)上，出現(xiàn)了一個“法輪功”的弟子上書黨中央的“萬言書”，提出一大堆所謂的科學證據(jù)，我建議中國科技界人士，仔細地讀一讀，認真地研究一下這個“萬言書”，對他的所謂科學證據(jù)，進行嚴肅的、科學的剖析。一切的科學證據(jù)，都只會通向唯物主義，通向無神論，絕對不可能為“有神論”提供論據(jù)，更不可能為李洪志這樣一個新的“神”提供什么“科學論據(jù)”。這件事情還需繼續(xù)做。
采訪結束時，何老向記者表示，他還要繼續(xù)揭露批判“法輪功”等偽氣功、偽科學的本質(zhì)和危害，讓更多的人提高認識。記者還得知，已有多家國家部委機關邀請何老前去做報告。我們相信，在以江澤民同志為首的黨中央領導下，這場與“法輪功”的斗爭一定能取得勝利，全國人民建設有中國特色的社會主義事業(yè)的腳步，是任何人也阻擋不了的。
(《中國信息報》1999年8月20日)
An interview with He Zuoxiu: How he exposes and fights against Falun Gong
Knowing Falun Gong at a book stall
Journalist: Mr. He, how did you get to know Falun Gong?
He Zuoxiu: On November 26, 1996, I happened to find at a book stall the book "Zhuan Falun" by Li Hongzhi, which was published by China Radio and TV Publishing House. I wondered why China Radio and TV Publishing House, an important national press, published a book to advocate Buddhism. Then I took it for granted that the book was only to advocate Buddhism. However, a close reading of the book surprised me a lot because it was making use of and even debasing Buddhism so as to spread superstitious ideas. I thought Li Hongzhi and his Falun Gong should be given due attention.
Later I read more materials related to this respect. The most impressive was one article by Mr. Chen Xingqiao from the Buddhist Association of China to expose Falun Gong. Mr. Chen attacked Falun Gong from the perspective of Buddhism and held that Falun Gong was only taking advantage of Buddhism and it was in fact a cult. Since scholars from Buddhism have thought Falun Gong as cult more than superstition, I thought we should really be on alert against Falun Gong.
Journalist: What urged you to fight against Falun Gong?
He Zuoxiu: Some tragedies caused by Falun gong occurred around me. So I thought it was high time to expose Falun Gong. At that time Falun Gong spread very fast. Even some postgraduates in our institution began to practice Falun Gong. One postgraduate was so infatuated with Falun Gong that he developed schizophrenia. He neither ate nor spoke all day long, and he even forced himself to stay awake the whole day. Leaders of our institution were informed of this situation and took this postgraduate to psychopathic hospital very soon. This incident showed clearly that Falun Gong would lead practitioner to a psychopath and people should be warned of this point. So when I was interviewed by the program "Beijing Express" at Beijing TV Station, I remarked, "Practitioners of Qigong should have a clear idea of the functions of Qigong. People can benefit from Qigong to some degree. But some Qigong may lead people to going into extremes, such as Falun Gong. So practitioners should be on alert." To my surprise, after the broadcasting of this interview, Beijing TV Station was beleaguered by some practitioners of Falun Gong. I received a lot of letters that expressed the similar voice to defend Falun Gong. Most of the letters were from Shenyang, which explained that the movement was specially organized. Falun Gong practitioners in our institution and China Science Academy came to me and argued with me about Falun Gong. Then I really wondered why Falun Gong launched movements of such a large scale to respond to my criticism. Almost at the same period, Falun Gong followers have besieged many newspaper offices and other media, which made a great stir in the society. At that time most of the news agencies besieged were forced to apologize, and only a few media withstood the pressure.
One article starting a storm
Journalist: After you criticized Falun Gong openly, Falun Gong arranged many practitioners to beleaguer Beijing TV Station, wrote letters to you and debated with you. Then did you feel endangered?
He Zuoxiu: I was not scared by the threats and debates from Falun Gong for I sided with truth. So whenever I got the chance I would continue to expose Falun Gong in the media. For example, I criticized Falun Gong respectively at "The Trend of Science and Technology" and a journal in Xi'an, and they were later besieged by Falun Gong. As for me, I held onto the truth and expressed my criticism frankly. Therefore, I published an article to expose and attack Falun Gong at "Science Review for Juvenile".
Journalist: it is just this article at "Science Review for Juvenile" that angered Falun Gong and they began to beleaguer Tianjin Normal University on a large scale and then even desperately launched their besiegement of Zhongnanhai, the highest leading department of the Party and the country. Could you tell me how you wrote the article and what you have mentioned in it?
He Zuoxiu: In early 1999, I was invited to write an article for juvenile by "Science Review for Juvenile" published by Tianjin Normal University. So I wrote the article entitled "I don't support juveniles to practice Qigong" because I thought the juveniles should be warned against the dangers of some Qigong. Since I realized clearly what Falun Gong really was, I criticized Falun Gong for two times. First I held that Falun Gong was to spread superstitious ideas and advocate the so-called "law of primordial spirit". Second I warned that Falun Gong might make practitioners go into extremes. Here I took the example of that graduate in my institution who went into extremes because of Falun Gong.
In fact, when I was using this example of the postgraduate in our institution at Beijing TV Station, some Falun Gong followers came to debate with me, claiming that postgraduate went into extremes because of the practice of other Qigong instead of Falun Gong. But they couldn't tell me the real name of other Qigong. So what they claimed was just chicanery, for all of us knew clearly that that postgraduate practiced Falun Gong. At that time I said to them, "Why do you lie? That postgraduate suffered schizophrenia due to Falun Gong. Why do you blame other Qigong?" They responded, "Mr. He, that postgraduate went into extremes because he performed wrong postures." I challenged, "I practice Taiji Boxing. I know that people may have a variety of postures in performing Taiji Boxing. If people would go into extremes just because they have used wrong postures when practicing Falun Gong, that only means Falun Gong is too dangerous." Our debate ended in vain. In fact, I have not totally realized the risk of Falun Gong at that time. Now it is clear that Falun Gong is more dangerous than we have expected.
Therefore, in the article published at "Science Review for Juvenile", I specially mentioned that the very postgraduate recovered from schizophrenia and went on with practicing Falun Gong and went into extremes for the second time. He kept murmuring "Master Li Hongzhi is continuously caring for me" all day long, which proved more certainly that this postgraduate went into extremes because of Falun Gong. Those Falun Gong practitioners intended to deny the fact and felt greatly annoyed at my article. So they beleaguered Tianjin Normal University and "Science Review for Juvenile". At the same time, in order to fool more Falun Gong practitioners, they didn't allow the practitioners to read my article. Their excuse was that article was very long and wholly against Falun Gong. In fact, my article was very short with less than 1000 words and Falun Gong was only mentioned for two times. So they fooled and instigated some practitioners to beleaguer Tianjin Normal University.
Later they gathered and protested in front of Zhongnanhai and put forward three requests. First they wanted to be declared as a legal organization. Second they asked "Science Review for Juvenile" to apologize to them. Third they urged to punish He Zuoxiu severely. It seemed that they targeted He Zuoxiu's article. In fact they just made use of my article to elaborate their own intentions, which were to challenge our Party and our Central Government. Now they have begun to attack Communist Party of China, even President Jiang and Premier Zhu. It goes clearly that their besiegement of Zhongnanhai was premeditated, organized and planned action. The chief instigator is none other but Li Hongzhi.
Braving the besiegement and debates
Journalist: Just as you said, Falun Gong followers have debated with you for many times. How did you cope with them?
He Zuoxiu: While I was criticizing Falun Gong, they encouraged some practitioners to debate with me. For example, when they were beleaguering "Science Review for Juvenile" in Tianjin, some Falun Gong practitioners came to my home to debate with me. I had to take up the gauntlet; otherwise they would think truth sided with them. Of course, I would not debate blindly; instead I have taken up some strategies. First, I would ask whether they were representatives of Falun Gong. But no one dared to admit his or her identity of Falun Gong representatives. Then I would ask them why they came to debate with me. I welcomed any kind of debate if they disagreed with me or stood for Falun Gong. I even welcomed Li Hongzhi to debate with me personally. Then one of them claimed to be on behalf of Falun Gong. I required him to show me the letter of introduction. He couldn't show me anything. Then I continued I would not debate with him since he could not prove him to be the representative of Falun Gong.
The second strategy was to recriminate them just with their own ideas. I would say you practice Falun Gong, which believes in truth, compassion and forbearance while I am a member of Communist Party, which grasps well how to fight and how to unite. You talk so loud about forbearance. But what you have done never lived up to the forbearance. I just wrote a short article to show my disagreement with you. But you have started such a stir and dragged so many people to beleaguer or debate. Where was your forbearance? In my opinion, you were much more aggressive than me. Formerly I had thought Falun Gong might have some merits. Now what you were doing was not in consistent with what you were advocating. Of course I will fight against you. I have read the Bible and Christ has taught us that tolerance means "whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." Now I have only given you some criticism, you rushed to my home to debate. Are you exemplifying your tolerance? Your actions have impressed me really badly.
Then I came to the word "truth". At that time I have learned from Mr. Chen Xingqiao's article that Li Hongzhi had changed his birth date. I asked them, "Li Hongzhi's birthday is July 7. Why did he change it into May 13? Can it be considered as truth?" At that time many of them remained in dark about this news.
I finally came to "compassion". Falun Gong claims that practitioners needn't take any medicine even if they fall ill. Consequently many patients died. Many reports of this kind have appeared on the newspapers. Can this be regarded as "compassion"?
So I just made use of their slogans to debate with them. Li Hongzhi has written in his books that truth, compassion and forearance are the most important laws in the universe. I argued, "You can disagree to my ideas. But why don't you obey what Li Hongzhi has preached to you?"
Standing behind the locked anti-theft door, I kept debating with them. If they really dared to prize my anti-theft door, I would dial 110 and report to the police. But to tell the truth, they did not destroy my door.
Li Hongzhi bragging a lot to fool people
Journalist: Falun Gong has exerted wide and execrable effects on the society and thousands of people have been fooled. Mr. He, do you think what the real reasons are?
He Zuoxiu: Falun Gong began to spread from 1989. From 1992 to 1999, it spread to many places of China. Then it claimed to have a hundred million practitioners. In fact the true number is about 2 millions. Even this number is surprising. In addition, about one third of the practitioners are members of Communist Party. Our Party was founded in 1921 and launched a large revolution in 1927. Members of our Party at that time were far less than the number of Falun Gong followers. Now our country is under the leadership of Communist Party. But such cults as Falun Gong have developed at an amazingly high speed. This situation really deserves our full attention.
In my opinion, Falun Gong can develop so fast and attract such a large number of followers mainly for two reasons.
First, Qigong has enjoyed broad social basis and a long history in China. In recent years Qigong fevers have occurred one after another and people have been obsessed with creating new living gods. All provide many chances for the development of Falun Gong. Especially, Li Hongzhi is good at bragging to fool people. He boasted so much that even I was once cheated. He bragged that Falun Gong practitioners have amounted to 60 millions. I thought the real number would be 20 millions if what was exaggerated was left out. 20 millions is also an amazing number. But in fact the real number is only 2 millions. So Li Hongzhi's exaggerations are beyond our imagination.
Second, Li Hongzhi is good at taking advantage of others' reputation or influence to do his favor and promote Falun Gong as well. He first took advantage of Buddhism and Sakyamuni. He changed his birth date to claim himself to be the reincarnation of Sakyamuni and be far more powerful than Sakyamuni. Then he took advantage of our Party's authority and President Jiang's prestige among the masses. He boasted that President Jiang asked him to postpone the date of earth explosion. In this way he fooled some people into worshiping him and Falun Gong. Third he used some modern scientific terms to cheat people in the name of science.
Journalist: Mr. He, as a scientist, how can you determine Falun Gong to be anti-scientific and false? In other words, how should we differentiate pseudo-Qigong and pseudoscience?
He Zuoxiu: It is not an easy job to differentiate pseudo-Qigong and pseudoscience. It involves a series of problems such as how to understand the spirit of science and master scientific methods. Of course, anyone who claims they can control the timetable of earth explosion or claim they can solve any problems must be liars. For example, Falun Gong advocates that the whole family would benefit a lot if one person practices Falun Gong; if one is performing Falun Gong, the other around would be healthy. Clearly such statements are exaggerations or nonsense. One statistic shows that by now 743 persons have died because of practicing Falun Gong.
Another case in point is Yan Xin. He bragged that he could send out magical powers in Guangzhou to change the chemical compositions of the substance in tubes in the lab of Tsinghua University. He also boasted that it was him who performed Qigong to have put out the forest fire in Daxinganling. All these are dirty lies. There are also some people who claim to have supernatural powers such as predicting whether the satellite could be launched successfully or not. This is also pseudoscience and a kind of witchcraft.
New Theism in modern times is featured by "a living god" seemingly supported by modern scientific term. In traditional religions, people worship the dead gods and understand the religious ideas according to classical sutra or books. In the New Theism, the "living gods" can issue instructions, update directions and organize movements based on different situations. They are ready to provoke turmoil and therefore they are more deceptive and more destructive. In addition, New Theism has coined "law of eternal soul" and "law of primordial spirit" to destroy modern science.
So it goes without saying that all pseudo-Qigong and pseudoscience are against science and civilization and should be thoroughly exposed and attacked.
It depends on all of us to fight against pseudoscience and pseudo-Qigong
Journalist: In fact, many people have realized Falun Gong and other kinds of Qigong are only pseudoscience or pseudo-Qigong. However, only a few bravely stand out to expose and attack them. You are the most typical fighter against pseudoscience and pseudo-Qigong.
He Zuoxiu: You really do me a big favor. In fact, there are many people who frankly expose Falun Gong and other kinds of pseudo-Qigong and pseudoscience. It is said that advocators of pseudo-Qigong once called on all Qigong masters to jointly give off powers toward four persons: Yu Guangyuan, Sima Nan, Guo Zhengyi and He Zuoxiu. In their eyes, we four are the so-called "four evil persons". In the fight against pseudo-Qigong and pseudoscience, the other three scientists have done a lot of work. I have given my due contribution, that is, I am familiar with natural science, so I can expose them more thoroughly from the perspective of natural science and hence my ideas are easily accepted by the public.
Mr. Yu Guangyuan is the first to openly expose pseudo-Qigong and pseudoscience. Mr. Sima Nan once involved himself in some Qigong organizations and got to know much inside information. So he really gave a heavy blow to pseudo-Qigong. Professor Guo Zhengyi used to work in Beijing University and then became the leader of China Science Popularization Institution. He has constantly fought against superstitious ideas for many years. Here I will tell you an interesting story about Guo Zhengyi.
Professor Guo had a telephone equipped at home. The Telephone Bureau offered him a special number whose last four digits were 4444. Why is the number special? The explanation made by the Telephone Bureau was that no one wants this number; you are a fighter against pseudoscience, so you will accept it. Professor Guo responded, "Well, I have the number. I never believe in these kinds of superstitious ideas. Will this number really lead me to death? Nonsense! In fact, 4 in music book is read as 'fa', having the similar sound to Chinese character '發(fā)', meaning 'prosperity' in English. Then this number may make me more and more prosperous. Besides, this number is very easy to remember."
Next I will make you know more people of this kind
Professor Gong Yuzhi is the vice president of Party School of the Central Committee of CPC. He is a famous Marxist scholar and economist. He is also an expert in studying Deng Xiaoping Theories. He has written many books to expose and attack pseudoscience from the perspective of Marxism. This is of great significance. Formerly we have only focused on the exposure of pseudoscience from the perspective of natural science. Now Professor Gong has pointed out that modern pseudoscience is totally against Marxist thoughts and principles. Therefore, all the Marxists should be on great alert against pseudoscience.
Professor Zhang Honglin is the director of Qigong researching department at China Traditional Medicine Researching Institution. He is an expert in Chinese Qigong. Based on his rich knowledge of the history and methods of Qigong, he has written many books to expose pseudo-Qigong. He has also devised many specific and effective experiments to reveal the tricks of pseudo-Qigong. According to his experiments, with people's psychological suggestions intercepted, all the so-called "exterior powers" will fail to work magically as expected. That is to say, the magical effects of "exterior powers" are made by people's psychological suggestions. In fact, psychological suggestions can not produce effects at all. With clear thoughts and strong mind, people will not be easily influenced by psychological suggestions.
Doctor Zhang Tongling is a famous psychiatrist. He has studied many cases of patients who went into extremes because of practicing Qigong. Based on his rich clinical experience, he has published books to warn people of the potential dangers.
Professor Li Liyan has also written many books to criticize Ke Yunlu, a crazy supporter of pseudo-Qigong. In addition, Doctor Li Shengxian has been working in the countryside for many years. He has made systematic surveys on how witch doctors fool people and how modern witches spread in name of Qigong. His surveys are great contributions to the exposure of pseudo-Qigong.
Zhuang Fenggan is a widely respected academician. He is the first to expose the so-called "greatest predictor" Chen Linfeng. Rumors went that Chen Linfeng was awarded 200,000 Yuan by China Spaceflight Ministry because he had successfully predicted the smooth launching of the satellites. Zhuang Fenggan has made careful investigation and found out that Chen Linfeng was just a great liar. Chen Linfeng was awarded by the so-called "World Chinese Association" in which Chen Linfeng was just the deputy chief director. That means Chen Linfeng was awarded by himself so as to promote himself.
There are also many other persons who have made a lot of work to expose and attack pseudo-Qigong and pseudoscience, such as Zhang Xiaoxian, president of Tsinghua University, Meng Dongming at Workers Daily and Zhu Haiyan.
A joint and strategic fight against Zhang Baosheng
Journalist: Would you share with our readers your experience in exposing other pseudo-Qigong or pseudoscience?
He Zuoxiu: Well, I will first tell how we have destroyed the myth "water into oil", which was the "invention" by Wang Hongcheng, a liar in the field of science. On January 28, 1993, a famous national newspaper issued a piece of front-page news that the fifth greatest invention of China was to change water into oil. At that time, the eighth Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference was being held. Delegates in the circle of science and technology read the news and thought it absurd and deceptive. So I was urged to write an article to expose the trick.
I first collected all the newspapers which have published this news. A close reading revealed that different newspapers provided different percentages of oil and water. Based on this finding I wrote an analytical and critical article and sent it to three important national newspapers. However, several weeks went by, but my article was not published. Then I sent it to another newspaper featured by science and technology, but it failed to be published either.
In 1994, the Party Central Committee and State Council jointly issued "Some Suggestions on How to Reinforce the Popularization of Science". Song Jian, then chief director of National Science Committee, held a conference to discuss how to carry out the scientific popularization work. In the conference Song Jian called on the scientists to write books or articles to spread science and attack pseudoscience. Informed of the fate of my article to expose the trick of water to oil, he required Science and Technology Daily to publish my article. Later more articles have been published at different newspapers to expose and attack the "invention" of changing water to oil.
Supports of this "invention" have invited me to the northeast for several times to watch their experiments. I responded that since they believed their invention was scientific and universal, why not come to Beijing to make their experiments. They were not confident, so they dared not to experiment in Beijing. Their invention collapsed of itself.
Wang Hongcheng's swindle about "water to oil" has been thoroughly debunked not long before.
Next I will tell you how we have defeated Zhang Baosheng, the so-called first superman of China. Zhang Baosheng claimed that he enjoyed many supernatural powers, such as shaking out the pills from the bottle with his consciousness, identifying Chinese characters with his ears. Many scientists together with me held much suspicion toward his powers. Later we found an opportunity to testify Zhang Baosheng's supernatural powers. So we invited 10 scientists and magicians to attend the demonstrating meeting.
Before I went to the meeting, I have asked the director of Chemical Department at China Science Academy to make several glass bottles of special shapes. In the bottles were some pills attached with specific marks so as to prevent him from duplicating or stealthily substituting. In the meeting, we first requested Zhang Baosheng to use his idiodynamic ability to shake the pills out of the bottle. His performance started from 8 o'clock in the morning, but he failed till noon. Zheng Baosheng complained that the atmosphere there was not suitable for him to perform properly. Then we suggested that he take the bottle home to have a try. No matter when or where he could shake the pills out of the bottle, we would believe in his supernatural abilities. But he refused to take away the bottle.
Then we asked him to perform how to identify Chinese characters with his ears. I wrote some words on a piece of paper and put it into an envelope. I sealed the envelope with my own signature. Zhang Baosheng held the envelope and pretended to give out powers toward it. Then he returned the envelope to the host and said he should go outside to develop more powers. In order to prevent him from stealthily substituting the envelope, I gazed at his hands, but found no suspicious signs. Then one magician asked the host to examine whether the envelop was still the very one with my signature. To our surprise the envelope has already been substituted. Thus Zhang Baosheng's supernatural powers were exposed thoroughly. It turned out that he was just playing a conjuring swindle. We would be easily fooled, but skillful magicians could see through it from the first sight. So Zhang Baosheng was defeated totally in this demonstrating meeting.
Scientific and technological circles should fight against pseudoscience responsibly
Journalist: In order to eliminate thoroughly the bad effects made by Falun Gong and other fallacies, what measures should be taken in the society, especially scientific and technological circles?
He Zuoxiu: To eradicate the baneful influences of Falun Gong and other cults, we should first get rid of the bases on which Falun Gong can develop speedily. The bases involve people's blind fevers for Qigong, supernatural powers and the creation of living gods, which have been popular for some time in China. We must get to know the roots clearly. Otherwise, even if Falun Gong has been banned, another new cult would come up; even if Li Hongzhi has been exposed and attacked, another new "god" would occur.
Secondly, we should realize that we haven't thoroughly defeated Falun Gong theoretically. At present, on the Internet overseas appears a so-called "expostulation letter" by a Falun Gong practitioner to the Party Central Committee. This expostulation letter has put forward many so-called scientific evidences to defend Falun Gong and demanded Chinese scientific and technological circles read closely and make serious and scientific analysis. In fact, all the scientific evidences will only lead to materialism and atheism. They will not provide any service for theism and such "living gods" as Li Hongzhi. So we should do more to attack Falun Gong.
At the ending of the interview, Mr. He told the journalist that he would go on with his exposure of and fight against Falun Gong and other pseudo-Qigong or pseudoscience. He will continuously reveal to the public the baneful influences of pseudo-Qigong or pseudoscience. The journalist has been informed that many national departments have invited Mr. He to make reports. We firmly believe that under the leadership of the Party Central Committee, we will surely succeed in the battle against Falun Gong. Anyone cannot hold up Chinese people stepping toward socialism with Chinese characteristics.
(China Information Newspaper, August 20, 1999)